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Old 05-19-2005, 05:40 AM   #11
cadillac512
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I know,but when I read threads like this one the ticking in my head gets louder.... :lol:
Every time I take it to the track I tell it: Just a few thousand times more down the track and you're done...hang in there. :roll:
Terry
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Will it go 9's before it explodes? YES!
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Old 05-19-2005, 07:27 AM   #12
STDog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillac512
Terry
CSOB R&D dept.
I haven't spent much time on the MTS forums, nor followed performance mods for the big Cadillac engines.

What's CSOB ?
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Old 05-19-2005, 09:11 AM   #13
Al from MTS
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Terry,
Each time I bust a rod it was always in the same place. Right where they are broached for the rod bolt.
Now I'll shatter another myth. ARP rod bolts.
I never use them in my reconditioned Caddy rods. Only reason we sell them is so many guys ask an insist on them.
I can only say this. In over 10 years of disassembly of hundreds (that's right, HUNDREDS) of Cad engine cores I have NEVER found a failed stock rod bolt. Even stuff guys have heavily abused, over reved, ran out of oil, and so forth. Not one broken stock rod bolt.
EVERY time I have seen rod damage it was RPM related. Seen oval big ends, stretched or twisted beams. This was in engines twisted to 6000 and beyond with stock rods.
I do agree with using forged rods if you have the extra cash. Only because a forged rod bottom end will allow you to up the program down the road. Most rodders end up wanting more power after you get used to what you built. A forged rod bottom end will let you keep upgrading your cam and heads to make the extra power.
A stock rod bottom end would reach a ceiling. After that you are gambling.
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Old 05-19-2005, 10:13 AM   #14
~JM~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillac512
Terry
CSOB R&D dept.
I haven't spent much time on the MTS forums, nor followed performance mods for the big Cadillac engines.

What's CSOB ?

Ah... Young Grasshopper.



CSOB is not a Thing, nor a Time or a Place...




It is rather a "State of Being".





When you are ready...





You may learn from the Master....



~JM~
New CSOB in training
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Old 05-19-2005, 12:09 PM   #15
KJC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al from MTS
Terry,
Each time I bust a rod it was always in the same place. Right where they are broached for the rod bolt.
Now I'll shatter another myth. ARP rod bolts.
I never use them in my reconditioned Caddy rods. Only reason we sell them is so many guys ask an insist on them.
I can only say this. In over 10 years of disassembly of hundreds (that's right, HUNDREDS) of Cad engine cores I have NEVER found a failed stock rod bolt. Even stuff guys have heavily abused, over reved, ran out of oil, and so forth. Not one broken stock rod bolt.
EVERY time I have seen rod damage it was RPM related. Seen oval big ends, stretched or twisted beams. This was in engines twisted to 6000 and beyond with stock rods.
I do agree with using forged rods if you have the extra cash. Only because a forged rod bottom end will allow you to up the program down the road. Most rodders end up wanting more power after you get used to what you built. A forged rod bottom end will let you keep upgrading your cam and heads to make the extra power.
A stock rod bottom end would reach a ceiling. After that you are gambling.
Joe sherman said in an interview a few years ago that he had also never seen a rod bolt fail.
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Old 05-21-2005, 05:25 PM   #16
dave_brode
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Hi Miles,

That dished 460 piston just might work in a 472. The 22cc version should give pump gas CR for a serious effort [with enough cam]. However, the KBs are a no-no with N20, according to most experts. I wonder if Speedpro offers a similar forging?
Dave



O"]Here is a link to the KB site
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=diam

A 7" Olds rod (6.998") on a 472 crank will need a comp ht of 1.772". If you will look up KB-206, KB-137, & KB-138 these will have the desired comp ht, but, will need the pin bore diameter of the rod enlarged to fit the piston pin dia.

Also, the question relating to valve / piston top clearence must still be answered as this is not a 'made for it ' combination.

[/quote]
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Old 05-21-2005, 09:12 PM   #17
MilesO
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Hi, Dave,
I just looked on Jegs site via Google for Speed Pro and found nothing additional. However, SRP has a 460 Ford -3cc flat top w/1.770 ch yielding 9.6 :1 cr w/97cc chamber. # 867-150723 @ $485.
Al may be able to order these as well direct from SRP.

Campbellenterprises.com has many brands listed but may be upgrading their site info as Ford and Chev listings were not accessable.

The 472 stroke with the 6.998 Olds rod = 1.72 r/s ratio which is favorable and compatable with 1.772 ch pistons. Would be a great street combo with a properly speced cam & decent set of heads.

I'd still like to build that 'soft head ' design Larry Widmer wrote of on his site.

Miles
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Old 05-22-2005, 06:43 AM   #18
dave_brode
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Miles,

Realize that the compression data is meaningless, for anything but a 460 inch engine with a 97cc chamber. I'm guessing that a 4.360" bore and 3cc notch flat top in a tight quench 472 would give somewhere around 8.5-1 with 120cc and 12-1 or more with 76cc. Might work with 425 heads.....
Dave


O"]Hi, Dave,
I just looked on Jegs site via Google for Speed Pro and found nothing additional. However, SRP has a 460 Ford -3cc flat top w/1.770 ch yielding 9.6 :1 cr w/97cc chamber. # 867-150723 @ $485.
Al may be able to order these as well direct from SRP.

Campbellenterprises.com has many brands listed but may be upgrading their site info as Ford and Chev listings were not accessable.

The 472 stroke with the 6.998 Olds rod = 1.72 r/s ratio which is favorable and compatable with 1.772 ch pistons. Would be a great street combo with a properly speced cam & decent set of heads.

I'd still like to build that 'soft head ' design Larry Widmer wrote of on his site.

Miles
[/quote]
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Old 05-25-2005, 04:37 PM   #19
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Excellent Guys, thanks a lot!
I'v got it all torn apart, turns out it was broken rings in the #5 hole.
Darn thing blowing blue smoke everywhere, cant wait to get it back together. I'v already bought a set of olds rods [used] and I'm researching which pistons to use. Looks like the BBC's will win out, but I'll look into 460's B4 I make a final decision.

Again, thanks!
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Old 07-07-2005, 05:52 PM   #20
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It's nearly done
Turned out one of the heads were cracked, bought a 75 model 500 for the heads and crank.
Went with the BBC pistons, as far as we can calculate, about 9.2:1 final compression with a .020 decking and 3.5cc valve releifs cut into each slug.
Just wanted to thank everyone again for the input.
Daryl Tores
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