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Old 01-25-2009, 08:40 PM   #1
EriktheAwful
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Default Running a 472 without a cooling system

I'm working on swapping a 472 into a lightweight chassis for autocrossing. At events it will run for about 5 minutes at a time, with about 5-30 minutes between runs, for about 8 cycles per event, 10 events a season. In order to keep the weight down (near the weight of the stock motor) I've decided I'd like to try and run it without a cooling system. I need some feedback. I tried asking some questions on a demo derby site a few months back, but really didn't get any answers.

1) How long can I run a 472 like this before it'll need new rings? Should I stick with stock rings or chrome-moly?

2) I have a large oil cooler I'm going to plumb to it. A good idea?

3) Do I need to put hardblock in the coolant passages, or is it just necessary for boring .100 over?

4) Is an aluminum intake out of the question? I'd like to run the #10 cam.

5) Will I be able to restart it when it's hot? I'll be using an 800CCA Optima.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:33 PM   #2
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Does anybody have any experience running a Cad motor without a cooling system?
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:40 PM   #3
Ted in Olympia WA
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I do not have any experience but I sure would not do it even for 5 minutes. At least make a light weight cooling system. I would say cast rings would be best for you. Oil cooler would be a good idea. You have a couple of intakes to choose from. Good battery cables is a must.



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Old 07-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #4
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I hate to bring up a dead post again, but I've been searching for over a year and still haven't heard a peep.
Quote:
I sure would not do it even for 5 minutes.
I do have a little experience in this field. The 472 in question currently has burned up rings. Several years ago the alternator belt broke in my '69 Calais. I thought the alternator crapped out and I kept driving for 16 miles until I got home. The car and motor were well worn/abused by previous owners. When I got home I found out the alternator belt also turns the water pump. I called Al (back when MTS was in Wisconsin) and he said the motor should be okay, just replace the plugs and run it. He mentioned that derby cars run with no coolant with no problem. Fortunately the motor was too far gone, so I swapped in my 500. Now the 472's sitting on the garage floor, busting my kneecaps every time I try to walk by it, and I really want to do some shoehorning.

At several of the derby sites I visited they talked about how well 472s ran hot, but none gave any tips. I figure if nothing else I'll run the oil cooler, and some thermal barrier coating on the combustion chambers and pistons. I know I'm not exactly a regular around here, but if anybody has any input I would appreciate it.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:07 AM   #5
STDog
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I don't know of anyone running without a cooling system.
Even the drag racers use one, though only water in it.

I can see demo-derby cars not using a radiator in the front (easily damaged) but I'd expect they relocate it some where safe.

Perhaps you can contact Marty for more info. Or find Al and pick his brain. He's still on a few forums, though not real active. He recently had some parts on Craig's List too.

Last edited by STDog; 07-10-2009 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:03 AM   #6
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You might give this guy a call. He runs derby cars and has run a Caddy for sure

Ken 707 546-1107
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EriktheAwful View Post
I hate to bring up a dead post again, but I've been searching for over a year and still haven't heard a peep....
I would take that as a strong indicator that it's not a good idea.

Why would you take a dwindling resource such as perfectly good 472/500 blocks & 500 cranks, then purposely risk destroying it? If you don't want to run a liquid cooling system then find yourself an air & oil cooled engine to play with.

Last edited by ~JM~; 07-11-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:32 PM   #8
EriktheAwful
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Thanks for the input, I called Ken and asked him some questions. It sounds like he likes running Cadillac cars in the derby, but really prefers SBC engines unless he happens to come across a good running Caddy motor. Whichever he runs, he just runs until it quits. So it sounds like nobody runs Caddys without coolant for any long term. I'll have to think seriously about whether or not I want to try. Rest assured if I do I'll be running a large oil cooler and thermal coatings. And I'll be sure and post the results.
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