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Old 10-14-2008, 06:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~JM~ View Post
You probably don't need such an exotic lubrication system as a dry sump.

An accu-sump system, plus an OEM mid sump oil pan with the rear section cut out, boxed in & baffled, would most likely provide all that you would ever need.
i have a mid sump now. my problim is not volume, its clearence. my drive shaft will run directly underneeth the pan, and will contact the pan at ride height. thats why i need the dry sump.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #12
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Have you looked at the Eldorado Pan? They have a rear sump and are very high in the middle. The Eldoraod was front drive and had the drive shaft run right under the middle of the engine. This may fill your need.

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Old 10-17-2008, 07:14 PM   #13
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i have looked at all the stock pans.

i can not have a sump on the pan it's self at all.

the drive shaft will run directly under the pan, and would run right threw it at ride height. the whole reason for the dry sump system is to elimnate the portion of the pan that hangs down.

it has to be a flat bottom pan.

i dont want to sound like a dick, but a dry sump is my only option.

this pic doesnt give a great representation, but it should give you a pretty good idea how close the axle is to the pan. there is less then 6" clearence as it sits, and that leaves me with no up travel in the suspension.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...090508_113.jpg
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK View Post
....i dont want to sound like a dick....
Me neither, but sometimes it's just natural.

I'm gonna go back to my previous suggestion of doing more homework.

A dry sump system may be your only option, with the engine, X-fer case, front axle combination that you have selected at this time.

If you step back & start to think about the $$$'s involved & added complexity of a dry sump system. You may realize that you may be better off changing one or more of your components.

There is a good write up on the Novak site where he says something along the lines of... Just because you happen to have X plus X components handy doesn't necessarily mean it would be a great swap.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...ge_gateway.htm

I have no idea what a dry sump system will cost you. I'm willing to bet that even the most skilled fabricator, interchange expert, part scrounger extraordinaire, would be hard pressed to put one together for less than 1 or 2k $$$'s.

Maybe the Cadillac engine is not your best candidate for your chosen front axle or visa versa. Maybe an LS engine from a Vette would be a better choice. They have a very flat pan or may actually be an OEM dry sump system. I don't know for sure.

If you are dead set on having a Cadillac 500 up front (As I was when I built my CJ-7) you will most likely have to run that front drive shaft up one side or the other. The passenger side will put you into the oil pump & filter. The driver side usually has some form of the steering, brakes & exhaust to work around.

These are the obstacles that all engine swaps present to one degree or another. That's why there are so many failed attempts. The decisions & actions that you take to overcome these obstacles, are what your peers will use, to judge your knowledge base, skill level & craftsmanship.

You may have mentioned it earlier, but I was wondering. What type of transfer-case are you planning to use?
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:51 AM   #15
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...Another thought...

Someone else will have to verify this because I'm not 100% sure. If I recall correctly. The traditional Cadillac 500 Eldorado rear sump pan & the 368 Eldorado rear sump pan, have the deepest sumps (hang down the farthest) of the various Cadillac pans. I think the regular rear wheel drive 425 mid sump type pan hangs down the least.

Instead of my original suggestion of cutting the rear section out of a 425 pan & squaring it up with the sump. What about cutting right at the transition from the pan to the sump, completely removing the sump & straight back. Then add a very flat square or rectangular sump that kicks out to the sides like a circle track pan. You will need to put some serious thought into internal baffles, trap doors & pick up locations. This, plus an Accusump, http://www.accusump.com may get you where you want to go.

One other thing... I've heard that often times the various 425 pans, etc. May not clear all the rod bolts & requires a bit of ball peen hammer luvin'. I would suggest that you mock up your complete rotating assembly & bolt that pan on nice & tight without any gaskets. Then slowly rotate the engine through several rotations while paying attention to any resistance, etc. Once you have gained enough clearance without any gaskets in place, you should be good to go.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:31 PM   #16
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i was planning on running an accumulater any way, you dump it before every start up so nothing is dry when it fires. i will have a pretty complex oil system. im trying to elimnate the exturnal oil pump, i will be running a remote filter system from amsoil, and an accumulater. on top of all that, i will have a belt driven oil pump, and a dry sump pan. this is one of those things that has never been done, so figuring out all the little details before even being able to build anything is a little tricky. i just dont want to go off buying things i dont need, or that are the wrong parts. this would be much easier if i had an extra eng. to mock every thing up on.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:35 AM   #17
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An extra mock up block is a very handy tool indeed.

The in-line block valve on the accumulator is an excellent idea that I have considered many times, yet hadn't pursued.

Why do you want to remove the OEM Cadillac pump?

I was thinking about this a bit more yesterday & thought that the external pump may actually work in your favor. You may be able to completely eliminate the standard internal oil pick up tube & plug the port at the block & oil pan mating surface. Then you could possibly drill & tap a new oil pick up passage into either the block or the pump housing itself. That would allow you to run a braided stainless steel or hard line, externally to just about any location on the oil pan that you want. I'm going off of memory here & have not actually gone out & verified if there are any locations that would provide a good place to drill & tap. I seem to recall that there is though.

Have you ever seen the post on my Jeep? It's not anything like you are trying to build, but I think it turned out fairly well. I am not an accomplished welder, so I had to find someone to perform this part of the swap for me. I believe I was very fortunate to find the fabricator that I did.

One of his philosophies that appealed to me & makes perfect sense, is to make every attempt to use as many OEM parts as possible. Now he has the skills to engineer & build just about anything. But it's very difficult/ impossible to exceed the reliability testing that the OEM engineers have built into every part they produce. Might as well use that to your advantage.

If you want to check out my Jeep. It can be found at the site listed below in my sig.

Last edited by ~JM~; 10-19-2008 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:12 PM   #18
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Jeep looks good, nice to see someone who thinks like me. huge motor small package.

i have considered useing the stock pump, but with every thing im running im not sure it will handle it. i'll check into it though.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:56 PM   #19
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Thanks. I come from an area with a colorful history of Hot Rod Jeeps, EB's & LC's. In the mid 70's, one of my Dad's co-workers used to run around in a 440 Land Cruiser that he built. That rig, several other V-8 Jeeps, Carroll Shelby, etc, were my influences.

I can't take much credit for the swap other than the design, trouble-shoot, parts compatibility, process in my head. I built the engine myself & collected all the other components. Whatever needed to be re-built and/or modified to work, I had completed as much as possible.

I spent a little over a year & a half or so during this process looking for, interviewing, eliminating, several candidates to perform the swap related fabrication & welding for me. I found the guy that I ended up using, purely by accident on the cover of a magazine in a doctors office.

The goal for the Jeep has always been to preserve as much of the original Jeep as possible. The only cutting done, was to the radiator surround. The tranny tunnel received some minor sledge-a-matic under the passenger seat. As many existing holes & mounting locations were used as possible. I would be willing to bet that there were less than a dozen new holes drilled into the Jeep itself. It turned out pretty clean. There is still much that could be done, but that is on hold for now. Meanwhile... It's a driver. Most of these Cadillac swaps never even make it that far.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:32 PM   #20
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i hear you on the never making it thing. i have 3 projects going at the same time.

as for the completed ones, my favorite truck in the whole world was my 51 willys with a caddy in it. damn that thing was a scremer! im miss her.
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